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Author Topic: Thining out the Herd  (Read 1037 times)

Offline cscott1

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Thining out the Herd
« on: June 01, 2017, 12:33:40 PM »
Hey guys I went a lil overboard stocking my 4 ft 55 gallon tank with over 30 fish. It was fine when the fish were 2 to 3 inches now that they are getting around 4 inches its getting a bit crowded. I recently lost my 6 inch ob red zebra which sucked but it got me thinking it might be partially my fault for stocking the way I did so I think I'm finally ready to make some cuts and move a few fish on. I moved my 4 yellow labs into a 40 gallon breeder with their offspring 5 adolescent labs and 3 adolescent greshakei which they seem to be happy in their new home. I have a few more fish I think I may move on a sub dominate male maingano, a sub dom male crabro and a very large female grehakei that I got for breeding purposes but I have had her for 2 months and she hasn't bred with my male, I think she is past her prime and the smaller female hasn't bred with her in the tank because the big female keeps her in hiding. I also have a beautiful male yellow tail acei that probably needs to go hes always trying to breed with my greshakei females.

When I move the extra fish on to my buddy my thinned down stock list will be
1M 2F Red Zebra
1M 3F Maingano
1M 2F Bumble Bees
1M 2F greshakei
1M 2F albino socolofi
1M 1F Kenyi

I know thats still a bit much for the 55 in the long run considering the size the crabro get as well as the greshakei and estherae but its what I have so gonna try to make it work. What do you guys think? give it to me straight I dont know if the removal of fish will help alleviate some aggression and stress in the tank or if a major change in the hierarchy will spell disaster in my tank? Any tips to help make it a smooth transition for my stock? 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 01:38:07 PM by cscott1 »
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline Paul Sabucchi

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 01:09:00 PM »
Break a leg! Hope it works out, you do have some mean sons of fishes there.

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100gal yellow Labs, Acei, Rusties, Cynotilapia Jalo Reef, Labeotropheus t. Chilumba, Melanochromis dialeptos
100gal Saulosi, OB Zebras,  Perlmutt, Maingano, Rusties

Offline SportDog

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 04:37:42 PM »
If I was being honest, your new stocking list still needs adjusting.  Too many species, and the female to male ratio is not where it needs to be.  I wouldn't consider putting more than 3 species in that tank, and that is stretching it IME.  And as Paul said, you have some seriously aggressive fish in that setup which further complicates it.  You may still be stacking the deck against yourself.


100 Gallon (60x18x20)
Yellow Tail Acei, Maingano, Red Zebra OB, Synodontis Multipunctatus

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 05:00:17 PM »
If I was being honest, your new stocking list still needs adjusting.  Too many species, and the female to male ratio is not where it needs to be.  I wouldn't consider putting more than 3 species in that tank, and that is stretching it IME.  And as Paul said, you have some seriously aggressive fish in that setup which further complicates it.  You may still be stacking the deck against yourself.

I apriciate the feedback and dont disagree with you I could possibly put one more group in my 40 gallon breeder but I dont want to overcrowd it. Maybe the Kenyi. I know I should have more females for my kenyi but aside from that I don't think my male to female ratios are too far off and don't see how I could fix it without getting rid of 2 groups of fish and trying to find similar sized females for whichever groups I would choose to keep. It wouldn't be easy.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 05:25:07 PM by cscott1 »
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline Kingston1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 05:26:38 PM »
Removing only one species will not really solve anything.  There are just too many species.   You can try and go all males, that may even be better.  Just remove all the females, and keep the 6 species of males.  You may even be able to add a Yellow Lab (male) to that group for a yellow color fish. 
75gal   W/T Haras, Met. Membe Deep, and Kawanga Golds
60gal   Ps. Saulosi (1M and 9F) and 1 lonely OB Peacock.

Offline SportDog

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 06:49:10 PM »
If I was being honest, your new stocking list still needs adjusting.  Too many species, and the female to male ratio is not where it needs to be.  I wouldn't consider putting more than 3 species in that tank, and that is stretching it IME.  And as Paul said, you have some seriously aggressive fish in that setup which further complicates it.  You may still be stacking the deck against yourself.

I apriciate the feedback and dont disagree with you I could possibly put one more group in my 40 gallon breeder but I dont want to overcrowd it. Maybe the Kenyi. I know I should have more females for my kenyi but aside from that I don't think my male to female ratios are too far off and don't see how I could fix it without getting rid of 2 groups of fish and trying to find similar sized females for whichever groups I would choose to keep. It wouldn't be easy.

For Mbuna, especially the ones you are stocking, I would shoot for a 1:5(up to 1:8 on the maingano) ratio as a minimum.  The are extremely hard on the females, generally speaking.  Leading to stress, and ultimately death.  What is the backup plan if you lose 1 female in a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio?  You are down to 1 or 2 females.  The stress they will then take will likely end in their death.  IME you will end up with happier fish with more females to spread the aggression to. 

For Haps and Peacocks, a 1:3 is ok IME. 

Good luck on the changes. Nothing worth doing is easy  :nod:

100 Gallon (60x18x20)
Yellow Tail Acei, Maingano, Red Zebra OB, Synodontis Multipunctatus

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 07:31:10 PM »
Removing only one species will not really solve anything.  There are just too many species.   You can try and go all males, that may even be better.  Just remove all the females, and keep the 6 species of males.  You may even be able to add a Yellow Lab (male) to that group for a yellow color fish.

An all male tank doesn't interest me I really enjoy breeding the fish and raising the fry. In hindsight I wish I had only picked 2 or 3 breeding groups but my initial thoughts was that  I could breed more of a variety of fish with more species and I liked the thought of having a variety of different colors and personalities in my tank.. I have had pretty good success so far with the fish breeding I have got yellow labs, maingano, socolofi, kenyi, red zebra and multiple batches of greshakei. 
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 07:37:07 PM »
If I was being honest, your new stocking list still needs adjusting.  Too many species, and the female to male ratio is not where it needs to be.  I wouldn't consider putting more than 3 species in that tank, and that is stretching it IME.  And as Paul said, you have some seriously aggressive fish in that setup which further complicates it.  You may still be stacking the deck against yourself.

I apriciate the feedback and dont disagree with you I could possibly put one more group in my 40 gallon breeder but I dont want to overcrowd it. Maybe the Kenyi. I know I should have more females for my kenyi but aside from that I don't think my male to female ratios are too far off and don't see how I could fix it without getting rid of 2 groups of fish and trying to find similar sized females for whichever groups I would choose to keep. It wouldn't be easy.

For Mbuna, especially the ones you are stocking, I would shoot for a 1:5(up to 1:8 on the maingano) ratio as a minimum.  The are extremely hard on the females, generally speaking.  Leading to stress, and ultimately death.  What is the backup plan if you lose 1 female in a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio?  You are down to 1 or 2 females.  The stress they will then take will likely end in their death.  IME you will end up with happier fish with more females to spread the aggression to. 

For Haps and Peacocks, a 1:3 is ok IME. 

Good luck on the changes. Nothing worth doing is easy  :nod:

Yeah I guess I have been lucky that my males seem to be distracted by all the other males in the tank it takes a bit of the load off the females but I agree they would probably be much more happy to have a bunch of their own kind to have sex with instead of squabbling with all the other species males in the tank fighting for rank.
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline waycool6

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 07:41:26 PM »
forgive me if I am wrong but would it not be better too just get a bigger tank and split the females to male ratio between a 55 and say an 80. I have seen them new in the UK for around 240 with stands and canopy.
or you could sell some of your more aggressive fish and your current tank and get your self a nice big 180- 200g. for about 500. Bigger home happier fish.   
Nyererei frontosa clown loach Red tailed shark TBM Red Rubin OBM  Orange Blotch F1M Baenschi F1M Maylandi Sulphur Head F1M Jacobfriebergi TBM Pink Albino fire fish TBM Fire fish TBM Gold Red Eye TBM Dragon blood x2 F1M moori Dolphins. F1M livingstoni F1M Venustus F1M borleyi red fin F1M steveni tiger F1M Super VC-10 hap F1M fryeri/ahli F1M Red Empress 2x F1M Aulonocara sp. "Maleri /1`x Orange 1x white Peacock

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 08:10:12 PM »
Lol you are on to my plan... me "these fish have outgrown their tank" my old lady "well I guess we'll just have to get a bigger tank for half of them... probably not how that conversation will go but it sure sounds good in my head.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline waycool6

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 10:23:41 PM »
Lol you are on to my plan... me "these fish have outgrown their tank" my old lady "well I guess we'll just have to get a bigger tank for half of them... probably not how that conversation will go but it sure sounds good in my head.

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Well It sounds good to me. My wife did not want me to get a bigger tank but I did it anyway I sent her on a week long holiday and set it up as she was gone I had the tank hidden in the garage for almost a year LOL. When she got back from holiday she said what is that monstrosity that cant stay there. I said if you want it moved be my gest. I also took her for a nice meal and got her some new shoes she as now come rowed to the tank! she said (quote) now that it is all set up and polished to fit the room she likes it and she wants to get involved with choosing fish. I said of curse you can get in involved but I will show you what to chose LOL. The tank and all the parts cost me just under 900 but her holiday and shoes cost me 1250 the things we do to get what we want LMFAO.     
Nyererei frontosa clown loach Red tailed shark TBM Red Rubin OBM  Orange Blotch F1M Baenschi F1M Maylandi Sulphur Head F1M Jacobfriebergi TBM Pink Albino fire fish TBM Fire fish TBM Gold Red Eye TBM Dragon blood x2 F1M moori Dolphins. F1M livingstoni F1M Venustus F1M borleyi red fin F1M steveni tiger F1M Super VC-10 hap F1M fryeri/ahli F1M Red Empress 2x F1M Aulonocara sp. "Maleri /1`x Orange 1x white Peacock

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 03:07:51 PM »
Just an update I moved all my yellow labs to a 40 gallon breeder a week ago and I removed the trouble makers and extra males from my tank over the weekend. My male greshakei is back to his old self loving on the similar sized and smaller females after removing the extra large older female. I liked my yellow tail acei but he was a trouble maker and always tried to breed with my female greshakei so hes gone and moved on the sub dominate crabro male. Its amazing how just removing 3 fish from my tank has made such a difference in my tank my mainganos are now schooling and they have never done that. My tank is much less chaotic now.
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline Bandicoot

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 09:29:56 PM »
addition by subtraction

Offline Flippin Fins Aquatics

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 04:44:28 AM »
Just an update I moved all my yellow labs to a 40 gallon breeder a week ago and I removed the trouble makers and extra males from my tank over the weekend. My male greshakei is back to his old self loving on the similar sized and smaller females after removing the extra large older female. I liked my yellow tail acei but he was a trouble maker and always tried to breed with my female greshakei so hes gone and moved on the sub dominate crabro male. Its amazing how just removing 3 fish from my tank has made such a difference in my tank my mainganos are now schooling and they have never done that. My tank is much less chaotic now.
Very true. When I moved on my breeding pair of M. Greshekai, it seemed the tension in the tank at the time just disappeared. A kind of calm descended. As a result, and after the death of my M. Fanzilberri Makonde, my C. Afra Jalo Reef exploded into colour and has remained boss since.



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The environment for the fish looking out of the glass is far more important than the pleasure of the monkeys looking in.

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2017, 06:07:37 PM »
Thats a very nice looking fish.
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline cscott1

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 12:07:54 AM »
A few shots of my striped fish coloring up nicely after regaining rank in my tank sorry best I could do with cell phone. His color changes by the second sometime barely any stripes sometime they are almost black. He goes from almost white to a lavender to a deep blue his orange even changes from a yellow to bright orange. Crazy how much a fish can change depending on mood.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk
75 gal    1 M 3 F Metriaclima greshakei (Ice Blue Red Top)
             2 M 5 F Labidochromis caeruleus (Electric Yellow Lab) 40 fry in grow out tank
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima esthrae OB
             1 M 3 F Pseudotropheus cyaneorhabdos (Maingano)
40 gal    1 M 4 F Metriaclima emiltos Mphanga (60 fry in grow out tank)
             1 M 1 F Metriaclima elongatus chailosi
40 gal    1 M 3 F Cynotilapia zebroides Hara White Top Gallireya Reef (over 100 fry in grow out tanks)
             1 M 3 F Chindongo saulosi           1 M 3 F Metriaclima callainos (Pearl Zebra)

Offline Fishboy

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Re: Thining out the Herd
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 02:28:50 AM »
Some of mine do the same. Always annoys me as I think they look good with a certain colouration and then when you go to take a picture, they've changed back [emoji849]
Life is all about options, as long as you have something to look forward to, there is no reason to look back...now where can I put the next tank?